For reference:
Last Year's Teleconference

A National Teleconference Series on 2/7 and 4/11, 2003

Answers to questions

The following questions were answered by Barbara Fister:

We’re in transition. As pointed out, even librarians’ kids turn first to the net.
One interesting thing I found interviewing traditional-age college students about their use of the ‘net is that they like to start there to see what’s going on. It’s a way of quickly getting your finger on the pulse of contemporary culture and it’s more diverse in terms of responses than, say, the mainstream press. One student in fact started with a Web search, got so angry at what she saw (I believe it had to do with cultural appropriation of Native American religious traditions by people who had little respect for them but thought they were being diverse), that anger fueled her senior thesis—which turned out to be really good. I find students are far more savvy about using the Web critically than they are given credit for.

Instruction and reference service is a remedy for poor design of information systems. We need to googolize it!
Yes and no. Even if we make systems easier to use (as we should) there will still be need for people to do things around the systems that are really hard—decide how to articulate a question, interpret results, reformulate the search, etc. Reference isn’t just for helping people use the retrieval mechanisms, it should do far more than that. I spend a fair amount of time helping students use Google, not because they don’t know how, but because they haven’t figured out what to ask for yet.

Reference statistics are declining in academic libraries. Virtual reference works best with brief, simple questions. Virtual reference is a remedy for declining stats. It is merely replacing online help guides, tutorials, FAQ’s, etc.
If libraries can be made easier to use and people can find what they need without help, that’s great. The times I have personally used virtual reference, I’ve asked fairly complex questions of very specialized libraries (e.g. Maine State Law Library on a local search-and-seizure question; Chicago PL on a city handgun law) so it can be fairly complex if the patron knows how and who to ask. I do think it’s not a replacement for declining stats though—I mean, if stats go down because people don’t need to ask us, that’s not a bad thing. Virtual or digital reference is just another format for what we do face-to-face.

With regards to virtual reference and information literacy instruction, have you seen or created programs or collaborations where faculty and librarians set up virtual assistance for a whole class in order to address a specific research assignment? What are some if the best ways to use virtual reference in “whole class” research assignment situations?
I know this is being done, but I don’t know specifics. I have, however, spoken with grads of online library school courses where students learn to collaborate online and it’s something of a learning curve – not so much getting information but communicating well.

On our campus, every course has an e-amil alias and at times I’ve sent info to a class working on a project – say a new reference set that just came in or a Web page someone discovered that’s useful to the group. But there are probably better, more high-tech ways. No doubt librarians working in distance ed situations could answer this. At our shop, the real revolution has been getting students to realize the reference desk is a great place to come back to as their research progresses and heads off in new directions.

When instituting a “bold” change, such as combining reference and circulation into one service point, how do you suggest bringing staff along? How do you suggest bringing the public along?
I would suggest that change should arise from the need expressed or uncovered by qualitative research among users and staff; if they are seeing their needs or ideas taken into account it’s not so hard. If it’s just an idea imposed without consultation, watch out! It may be a lousy idea, or not. But it will be a harder sell for sure.

How do you convince managers and co-workers to participate in a digital reference project?
From my limited experience – library folks seem much more interested in trying out new things than the public demands. I’m more concerned we rush to expend our energies in directions that might not be particularly fruitful. And yes, virtual reference does come to mind here.

I would like to know the panel’s reaction to the development of information commons in academic libraries. How do you see reference services being offered? Finally, if fewer librarians are needed, what roles do you see reference librarians taking on in the future?
I don’t like to encourage people to think of information as being different because it comes in different formats. A text is a text is a text. Highlighting electronic information misses that basic point—it’s not the package, it’s what’s inside. We need to be prepared to see the whole collection—print and electronic—as part of the information commons. Because libraries are the intellectual common ground for their communities.

We haven’t heard yet about the amount of usage for virtual reference. How many questions do you get on a monthly basis?
At our residential liberal arts college, with almost all gen Y aged students, there is zero demand for it. Much depends on the context and the community.

Do you encourage patrons to use reference service software at the same time as the telephone in order to answer some of their questions?
I’d encourage carrier pigeons if that’s what works for the patron.

We are in negotiations with vendors who limit access to only our immediate patrons. How do we share resources when the vendor will not permit it?
Fair use. Stretch it to its limits. If we don’t exercise our rights, vendors and publishers will get more and more restrictive. IP law is complicated, but if you go back to what is foundational to law in the US—the Constitution-the balance between the rights of IP owners and the public is spelled out. Congress (which alas has the legal right to do so, according to a recent Supreme Court decision) keeps tilting that balance away from the public interest. Stay tuned for part two of this series.

I am intrigued by the idea of eliminating the reference desk. How do patrons browsing the library get to someone who can answer their question if there is no reference desk?
You have to have some sort of human presence, I think. It’s not a gas station, where you can fill up and charge it and nobody has to be involved. Yeah, you can find stuff and check it out yourself, but that’s not what the reference desk was for. I’ve found in Minnesota the desk is still better than, say, “roving” to see if anyone needs help. Culturally here, that appears to be a real intrusion. A human presence that suits the culture, whatever the furniture is.

Two good examples of shared school/library districts in downstate Illinois are Clifton/Central Citizen Library District and Park Library District.
That’s really cool! Also I think too rare.

To address concerns of cost, small libraries could consider linux or open source programs which would be free.
Too right.

Do you still find the term “reference desk” meaningful to users or should we be using a term such as “help desk”?
Funny thing is, I’m not sure the name will matter. “Help desk” to me suggests tech support. Whatever we call it, we simply need people to find out what we’re capable of and give them the confidence and level of comfort to let us do it for them (or with them).

How do we give up the primary instincts of serving our own in a shared reference services environment?
I’m not sure that this is a big issue, except that if we don’t know a patron’s context it’s harder to guess what they really need. But libraries are traditionally “free” and open – far more so than most cultural institutions. I’ll help anyone who wanders in. Bag ladies and all.

Can reference patrons be classified as “virtual types” or “over-the-desk types”? Does the question help decide on the delivery mode?
Interesting idea, and one that entails comfort with technology and with the written v. the spoken word. I think we need to be open to whatever mode the patron prefers. And if it’s face-to-face, we need to keep that. I have a friend who’s a travel agent. Because people are making reservations themselves online, bypassing travel agents, her company started a (bad) Web site and told the agents they should force customers to use it. Dumb—it alienated the few customers who still used their services because they didn’t want to do it themselves online. Let’s do whatever works for our varied patrons. And not worry so much that they ask Jeeves.

It would be cool to do a geographic analysis of who likes virtual ref. There might be an interesting correlation with income distribution, technology distribution, and clogged highways. (California comes to mind.) Whereas places with geographically vast spaces may lack the income/technology base to take advantage of it. There’s a great dissertation topic. Free for the taking.

How do you handle intellectual property issues? For example, what if the answer to a patron’s question comes from a subscription database which does not serve their area?
Stay tuned…

We aren’t a small library, but the university is facing budget cuts, and we might not be able to fill vacancies, let alone start a new program like this. What would you say to libraries which are in this position (public or academic libraries)?
Set your priorities based on what works best for your community. Don’t try to do everything. Let your patrons know how and why you set those priorities and let them help you do it.

Have you seen or created programs where faculty and librarians set up virtual assistance classes for a whole class for a specific research assignment? What are some of the best ways to use virtual reference in a whole class research assignment?
I haven’t, but I’m sure there are people who have. An inquiry to ILI-L@ala.org would probably get good answers. (This is the ALA/ACRL Instruction Section’s discussion list, the offspring of BI-L and highly recommended.)

What about the digital divide? John Small addresses community issues, but what if there is inequality of access to technology in your community? What is “fair and equal”? Regarding standards, do libraries publish standards for software and plug-ins that users should have to use in the library virtual reference service? Would this also include computer hardware?
This is a great question and I think should be basic to libraries’ decision-making. Making a high-end solution available will cut out some people. I’ve noticed even library Web sites that require java and flash and lots of older machines/dial up connections can’t do this. Consider, too, disability issues. You don’t want to build a cool system that is inaccessible to those with disabilities.

Should online reference be a replication of the desk to substitute for it, or is there a value other than convenience?
I’m stumped. I’ve only used it as a patron when I’m trying to get info from a remote library that has info mine doesn’t and for whatever reason can’t get. Otherwise, I’m not sure it’s better. Or even as good. Or that much more convenient.

Can the panelists address the cost involved in providing information? There is taxpayer support, tuition paid at colleges and universities, corporation budget line items for special libraries. To many patrons, the cost is invisible.

Also, related to cost is the copyright issue. For example, a patron may say, “I want a copy of XXX article written by YYY author.” It may be possible to locate the full text article in a database (for which the library pays a subscription), but delivering it often involves copyright clearance. It may or may not be fair use.
We’ve started paying copyright fees as part of doing business. We can’t afford every journal and database our patrons need, so we sometimes pay as we go. How we would do that if our definition of “clientele” expanded to embrace the entire world is something we haven’t yet had to address.

How would you address the dilemma: “I want this information; I don’t care what you [the library] need to find it; and I don’t expect to pay anything. After all, most everything on the web is free.”
At an academic library, it may be easier than in some places to explain that there’s no such thing as a free lunch. We recently went through an external review of our science collections. As a result, we don’t have more money to spend but we have a clearer picture of how to spend it best. Moreover, the faculty now know a LOT more about the economics of publishing and what it actually costs us to ransom back the intellectual property they give to science publishers. This was an opportunity to make clear to ourselves what folks really want and for us to help them understand what we do and why it matters. And how their own ignorance compounds the problem.

As a profession this is an area we need to do much more about. A big part of information literacy really should be not how do I find information, but where does it come from? What role do I play in producing new knowledge? How can I deal with ideas in conflict? What are the effects of the concentration of ownership of the media? And on and on and on. This is a huge area of social responsibility and we KNOW this stuff—we need to do more to share that knowledge and make it not just easier to get information but to help people understand just what’s at stake. It’s too important not to.

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